Friday, 1 April 2016

Re: [World Malayali Club] Muslim Offers $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Show That Qur'an Promotes Terrorism

 

My Dear,

If you take a debate on the versuses you mentioned, trust you are not getting a dime...
Most of the versuses you mentioned are applicable to a situation of face to face war in a battlefield where Muslims are being attacked. 

The previous versuses you brought forward and I said they were altered is because the language used to interpret the original versus where misleading and the versuses where not complete. Definitely anyone that would go by them will take a sword and look for who to slaughter and that's exactly against Islam and by all means is destined straight to hell fire as clearly mentioned in the Quran. 

Our mankind history regardless of religions is full of bloodshed for the sake of power and money, however in our era since you cannot justify colonizing a country by force, there must be other means to gain power and money and that's how it exactly is in the Middle East. 

US supported Iran during the Shah era, and when he turned his back on them, they funded Saddam, and when Saddam turned his back they invaded Iraq and we all know it was a a costly mistake to the people of Iraq but a good bounty for the Bush logistics company and the weapons manufacturers. In fact it is still a costly mistake because they made sure Shiite rule the country and cause a sectarian War which we are all suffering from now. 

A side, the recent incident, Pakistan was hit with a bomb that killed more than 60 humans many of them where children, yet CNN broadcasted loudly that Christians where targeted !!! How more sickening that could be ?

If you think we as Muslims like to kill each other, take a step back and think about this:
1. Shi'a are in KSA ? Yes, and they are permitted to perform every way of worshipping as long as they don't make troubles (which they do from time to time)
2. In the entire Middle East, there is not a single country that has no Shiaa living there, have you ever heard of any clashes? Except the recent one after the Arab silly spring (which was planned for a long time as part of the New World Order) ?
3. Do you know how many billions of dollars are traded between the Sunni countries and Iran ? (I will leave this for you to exercise)...

 My brother, this topic cannot be stopped unless and until we face the reality a stop blaming Islam for the sake of causing hatred among us and causing unnecessary wars which will only cause harm and yes weapon manufacturers make more money. 


For the $10K bounty, don't worry you have a free coffee from me, should we ever meet :)..

Before I close on this, here a couple of videos for you to watch to give you a fair idea of the wars in the Middle East 





Have a good day...

Regards. 



On Saturday, April 2, 2016, Narayanaswamy Subramanian <s_narayanaswamy@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Esteemed and learned Mohanad M A Elkhalifa

Appreciate your blessing Sylvester and Sajid Iqbal for their valuable and instructive contributions.

As you no doubt would have noticed, Sylvester does not say much, but Sajid Iqbal, writing for the very first time, is loquacious.  His condemnation of America and the Americans for all current and past wars on mankind is truly impressive, even if mistaken. 

Only, he omitted mentioning that, long before they called themselves "Americans", the British, especially the English, started terror, mass-murder and genocide of all natives on the North American continent.  This was in tandem with the Spaniards and the Portuguese doing the same in Central and South America, Goa, the Philippines, Macau, and East Timor. 

He also omitted the atom bombs dropped on Japan by the self-same Americans who had occupied the Hawaiian and Samoan Islands, but were scared of hand-to-hand fighting with the Japanese, the North Koreans, the Chinese Peoples' volunteers (during the Korean war).  And lost to the Vietnamese led by Ho Chi Minh.

Be that as it may, Dear Esteemed and learned Mohanad M A Elkhalifa, are there not other great not-so-secret truths, other wars being waged today by Koran-wielding Muslims against other Koran-wielding Muslims throughout the world?

What about the wars against Shias, Ahmaddiyas, Bahais, and other pious followers of the Holy Book?  Did not the Americans supply arms and ammunitions, and send military advisers, to Saddam Hussein in Iraq to try to wipe out the Shias of Iran (with tacit consent of the Saudis)?

Where in the Koran does it say such wars are God-ordered?  Or deny it?

Thanks for your elucidation. 

Here are a few more 24-karat Koranic pure and polished gems unearthed after following your sage advice to do more research:-

Koran 8. 15 - Believers, when you encounter infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them, but slay them. It was not you, but God, who slew them.

Koran 7. 203 - Say: I follow only what is revealed to me by my Lord.  This Book (Koran) is a veritable proof from your Lord, and a guide and a blessing to true believers.

Koran 6. 113 - We have assigned to every prophet an enemy.

Koran 6. 123, 125 - We have placed in each city arch-transgressors who scheme within its walls.  God will humiliate the transgressors and mete out to them a grievous punishment.

Koran 6, 133 - God raised you from the offspring of other nations.

Yes, Dear Esteemed and learned Mohanad M A Elkhalifa, I have dutifully gone through not one, but several versions of the Koran, in different languages, before accepting Omar Alnatour's challenge to quote a single verse from the Koran which shows that it promotes terrorism and his offer to pay US$10,000 if I did.

Peace be to you and yours, if God wills it.  Let's stop here, if you please.  And let's await Omar fulfilling his solemn promise in public to pay US$10,000 to Arhata Osho and to me, since we have done what he wanted us to do.

Regards

S Narayanaswamy





On Saturday, April 2, 2016 7:28 AM, "'Mohanad M.A. Elkhalifa' mohaned@gmail.com [worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Sajid and Sylvester,
God bless you. 

Regards. 

On Thursday, March 31, 2016, Sajid sajidiqbal.pk@gmail.com [worldmalayaliclub] <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Hi all,
I am writing first time in this group. The discussion under consideration is interesting and I am pleased to see that people are looking from different angles. Although I am not a scholar, however I like to share my views too.
My comments are in response of Ramesh Kuganti:

1) Most of bloodshed in world is due to muslims....
    Comments: Let we have a bird view of world where there is war and bloodshed is there.
      1 - Afghanistan: The war is imposed by America and thousands of Afghanis have been killed by American and allied bombing for the sake of few persons. Slogan of religious war was raised by Mr. Bush and there are plenty of evidences present on media and internet.
    2 - Iraq: War was imposed by same America and allies for weapon of mass destruction and nothing was found later on. Infact this was an effort to capture oil reservoirs.
    3- Palestine: Unlawfully the area was occupied by Jews and native citizens were expelled out of country. The war was imposed on this country.
   4. Syria: The was is imposed by so called Islamic millitants (ISIS) which claims itself to be muslim whereas muslims do not accept them as muslims. Again the war is imposed on this country and muslims are being slaughtered.
  5- Please look on following site to find out how many wars are there in world at present and who are the parties.

   6-Please have a look on following link to find out which holy book is more violent

2) No appreciations for older religions:
    Comment: Islam deny few religions and accepts others. It is to note that Islam is extension or updated version of few old religions as described by Quran.
     For example:
     1-Jewish religion is accepted and appreciated in Quran. However it is stated that the religion was modified later on by the followers. Prophet Moosa - Prophet of jews is heavily appreciated and muslims as a nations are considered more close to Jews as compared to any other religion.
     2- Christianity: Prophet Jesus was born without father. It is Islam and Quran that accepts and explains the fact. Quran also describes the rewards for true followers of Christianity however the claim of Quran is again that this religion was modified by the followers which is evident from old and new testimonials of their holy book. Please look at following links
    and you may also refer to following link:

rest of the comments need more work and sometime later or someone else will reply.

My own observations:
 Weapon production is one of the largest businesses in the world. And off course, to flourish this business, its market is required. If there is no market, then create one. Now we need to see that who are the largest weapon producers and how they are creating their market.



On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 8:59 AM, ramesh kuganti rkuganti2012@gmail.com [worldmalayaliclub] <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Dear All,
 Kindly Make  me a Partner in sharing USD.10,000 Announced By Mr Omar Alnatour. 
1) There is an adage-The Proof Of The Pudding is in its Eating" Whether  some  sentences inciting Violence are There or Not In Holy Quran is not the Criteria to prove whether Quran incites Violence . The Real Life Proof is  FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM OF ALL DENOMINATIONS ARE THE CAUSE OF BLOOD SHED/MAYHEM/MASSACRES/GENOCIDES THROUGH OUT THE WORLD AND ISLAMISTS HAVE KILLED OTHER ISLAMISTS AS WELL AS NON ISLAMISTS.  THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL THE BLOODSHEDS SHOULD BE ASCRIBED TO PROPHET  MOHAMED; BECAUSE NO OTHER RELIGIOUS BOOK HAS CAUSED DEATHS AND DESTRUCTION OF THE SCALE CAUSED BY HOLY QURAN.

2) THE MAIN FLAWS OF ISLAM AND ITS TEACHINGS AND EVEN HOLY QURAN ARE  THEY NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED  EVEN A FEW OF THE GREAT  ASPECTS  OF PRECEDING AND OLDER  RELIGIONS

3)ISLAMISTS/HOLY QURAN CANNOT AND ARE UNABLE TO EXPLAIN AS TO HOW THE MOTHER NATURE IS PROVIDING FOOD NOT ONLY FOR ISLAMISTS BUT EVEN TO NON ISLAMISTS

4)ISLAMISTS/HOLY QURAN CANNOT AND ARE UNABLE TO EXPLAIN AS TO HOW DEMOCRATIC HINDU RELIGION IS SURVIVING DESPITE BLOODY ONSLAUGHTS OF ISLAMISTS, EVER SINCE THE ADVENT OF ISLAM.

5)WHAT IS THE SPECIAL GREATNESS OF ISLAM, WHEN  ISLAMIC COUNTRIES AND EVEN HOLY MECCA WERE WITNESSES TO DEATHS AND DESTRUCTION CAUSED BY MAN MADE MISTAKES AS WELL AS NATURAL DISASTERS AND HELPLESS AGAINST SUCH DESTROYING AND DEATH DEALING EVENTS?

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Narayanaswamy Subramanian s_narayanaswamy@yahoo.com [worldmalayaliclub] <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Dear Omar Alnatour

Thank you so very much for publicly offering "anyone $10,000 if they can find me a verse in the Quran that says it's ok to kill innocent people or to commit acts of terror."  I eagerly accept.


Sri Arhata Osho or arhataworldfreespeech, UK has, in his remarkably eloquent response to your offer, answered you point by point, and found not one, but several verses in the Quran that satisfied your criterion.

He cites specifically Quran 9.5, Quran 9.29, Quran 9.30, Quran 3.151, Quran 9.14, and Quran 8.60.

In addition to all that, let me now give you some more authentic and easily verifiable citations that also satisfy fully your criterion:-

Quran 47.4 & 5 - When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield (even when you provoked the battle yourself) strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.  Had God willed, He Himself could have beheaded them, but he has ordained it thus that he might test you (to do the beheading).

Quran 2.191 - Slay them (i.e. idolators) wherever you find hem.  Idolatry is worse than carnage.

Quran 9.73 - Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites (and kill them off even if they live peacefully by themselves and do you no harm).

Then 9.123. - Believers, make war with the infidels who dwell around you (and kill all of them off).

My dear Omar, on combing through not only your Quran but your other Holy Books, I could find more instances where your God Allah not only encouraged but ORDERED terrorism and mass murder. 

Remember, for example, the incident of the Bani Quraysh where your Prophet and his armed men personally raided that peaceful Jewish settlement, got all the men and post-puberty boys to dig a long earthen grave-trench and sit in a line at the edge with their wrists and ankles tied.  

Your Prophet and his men then walked along and in front of their terrified families, beheaded every single one of them with shouts and curses.  After that they made their womenfolk including little girls and suckling babies slaves -- your Prophet taking one-fifth of the captives as his own booty, as well as one-fifth of all goods and possessions seized such as camels, horses, cattle, furniture, agricultural implements, clothes, money, pots and pans, foodgrains, seeds and cattle fodder.

The Jews' crime?  They were not desert Bedouins, and declined to fight alongside the Muslims to conquer, pillage and enslave others.

My dear Omar, when can you pay me as solemnly promised and as an Allah-fearing Muslim, not necessarily US40,000, being US$10,000 per above-given citation, but a minimum of US$10,000 for my efforts?  Where, when and from whom can I come to collect it?  Can you make it cold cash instead of a bounceable cheque?  Thanks.

Due to health problems, I have long given up driving cars.  But with US$10,000 I certainly shall go to the Near West, to Saudi Arabia, and hunt for the tomb of
Safiyah bint Huyyay, the Prophet's Jewish concubine, and for the tomb of Aishah whom he married when he was an aged 53-year-old grandfather and she was a six-year-old infant playing with toys. 

After finding them, I shall sprinkle on the tombs a few drops each of Ganga water which I have collected from Pancha-ganga in Kaashi, from the confluence of Ganga, the Yamuna and the Sarasvathi in Praayaga at Triveni, and from the confluence of the Ganga and the Brahmaputra in Bengal.  Hopefully, these will alleviate their eternal thirst a la Bhageeratha's ancestors.  Zam Zam water will not do that.

S Narayanaswamy







On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:34 AM, "Arhata Osho arhataworldfreespeech@yahoo.co.uk [worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 

Dear Omar Alnatour:
Thank you so very much for offering "anyone $10,000 if they can find me a verse in the Quran that says it's ok to kill innocent people or to commit acts of terror." My 1999 Toyota is on its last legs, and your generous gift will enable me to replace it with a modest but fully operational used midsize sedan. Or maybe (since it has been years since I've had a break), if I can keep the jalopy going for awhile, I will use your ten grand take a vacation to Paris and Brussels -- before it's too late, you know?
Anyway, here is my entry, which I am confident will win the $10,000 prize. I'll make sure of that by giving you even more than you asked for: you wanted just a single Qur'anic verse that "says it's ok to kill innocent people or to commit acts of terror," I'll give you more than one of each, just so there is no doubt:
  1. The Qur'an says it's ok to kill innocent people
"Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate." (Qur'an 9:5)
The verse says to kill the idolaters – mushrikun – those who worship others besides Allah. Now I don't know, Mr. Alnatour, if you might think "idolaters" are by virtue of being "idolaters" are not innocent and therefore worth killing, but I'm with Thomas Jefferson: "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." I don't think my neighbor to have forfeited his innocence if he prays to gods I don't recognize, and I hope you don't, either.
Now I expect that you will say that this Qur'an verse refers not to all idolaters, but only to one very specific group of idolaters, the polytheist Quraysh tribe of Mecca that was making war against Muhammad, and that this verse has no force now that they have been conquered and Islamized, and doesn't apply to any other idolaters. It would have been nice for Allah to make that clear in the pages of his perfect book, but who am I to question the will of a deity?
What's more, classic Muslim commentators on this Qur'an verse give no hint that it has long expired. On the contrary, Ibn Juzayy notes that it cancels out peaceful verses; he says that it abrogates "every peace treaty in the Qur'an," and specifically abrogates the Qur'an's directive to "set free or ransom" captive unbelievers (47:4). As-Suyuti agrees: "This is an Ayat of the Sword which abrogates pardon, truce and overlooking" — that is, perhaps the overlooking of the pagans' offenses. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that the Muslims must "slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except death or Islam." He is offering this as instruction for Muslims in his day; he seems to have no idea that this verse doesn't apply to them.
Neither does Ibn Kathir. He writes that Muslims should "not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam." He also doesn't seem to subscribe to the view that this verse applies only to the pagans of Arabia in Muhammad's time, and has no further application. He asserts, on the contrary, that "slay the unbelievers wherever you find them" means just that: the unbelievers must be killed "on the earth in general, except for the Sacred Area" — that is, the sacred mosque in Mecca, in accord with Qur'an 2:191.
So there you are, Mr. Alnatour: the Qur'an calling for the murder of those who are innocent, except for the crime of being "idolaters" – a "crime" that requires earthly punishment only in the Qur'an.
And there's more:
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)
The "People of the Book" are Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians. The verse doesn't provide any reason why they should be fought and made to submit to the Muslims except that they are People of the Book and don't acknowledge Islam. Here again, you might consider them not innocent on that basis, but I hope you don't, as I'm sure you would agree that people may differ on key questions in good faith.
Ibn Juzayy, however, does believe that the People of the Book should be fought simply because they are not Muslims. He says that this verse is "a command to fight the People of the Book" and explains that they must be fought because of their "denying their belief in Allah because of the words of the Jews, 'Ezra is the son of Allah" and the words of the Christians, 'The Messiah is the son of Allah'" (cf. Qur'an 9:30). He adds that Muslims must also fight them "because they consider as lawful carrion, blood, pork, etc." and because "they do not enter Islam." 
So the Qur'an says that the People of the Book must be fought because they believe differently from the Muslims. But that is not a crime. These people are innocent.
  1. The Qur'an says it's ok to commit acts of terror
"We will cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers." (Qur'an 3:151)
Now, Mr. Alnatour (may I call you Omar?), I know what you'll say here: this is Allah saying he will terrorize the unbelievers, not commanding the Muslims to do so. Fair enough, although I can't help but recall that the Qur'an also says: "Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands" (9:14). So if Allah is punishing the unbelievers by the hands of the believers, might part of that punishment involve casting terror into the hearts of the unbelievers? And that's what terrorism is all about, right?
And yes, there is still more. "Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged." (Qur'an 8:60)
Strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy. Now you no doubt have some explanation for this, Mr. Alnatour, but I wonder how you would explain to a young member of the Islamic State (ISIS) or al-Qaeda that Allah's command to strike terror into the enemy of Allah doesn't mean that they should behead, or blow up, or otherwise terrorize unbelievers.
So there you have it. Not just one verse, but four, and I have plenty more. You don't have to pay me $40,000 even though I fulfilled your requirements four times over; I'll take the $10,000, and thank you very much for your generosity. I must say that I very much enjoyed your article in which you made this offer, "Why Muslims Should Never Have To Apologize for Terrorism," if it is proper to say that one enjoyed such a lamentable tale as your own. It is lamentable to read about how your wife screams at you and your children hate you for matters beyond your control, and that then on top of that, Infidels have the temerity to want you to do something about Islamic terrorism beyond issuing pro forma condemnations. 
My mind goes back, however, to those who were murdered by Islamic terrorists recently in Brussels, Paris, San Bernardino, and so many other places. I'm sure you would agree that the suffering of their families far exceeds that of Muslims who must suffer Infidels asking them (quite patiently, for over fourteen years now since 9/11) to clean their own house. I do hope that you will think a bit about them, and about your Qur'an. Instead of obfuscating its contents, as you're writing out my check, you could do us all a favor by starting to ponder some strategies about how to limit the capacity of your holy book to incite murder and bloodshed. In light of my confidence that you will do that, I very much look forward to your next article.
With cordial best wishes from your fellow human being,

Click here to join World Malayali Club






--
Sajid Iqbal



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__________________________________
You/i Have to exploit the strength of your/my
weakness, The weakness of the strong is
the strength of the weak.
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__________________________________
You/i Have to exploit the strength of your/my
weakness, The weakness of the strong is
the strength of the weak.
______________________________________

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