Smita Pani: Re: [World Malayali Club] Muslim Offers $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Show That Qur'an Promotes Terrorism

Dear Friends

This discussion has gone too long and far and will not achieve any worthwhile objective by continuing it.

Everyone is entitled to have their views but our objective should be to spread love, harmony and knowledge through such platforms.

Thank you for your understanding and stopping any further discussions on this topic

Thanks and regards

Venu

From: "Syed Mohiuddin Arif syed.arif@uasc.net [worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com>
To: worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: [World Malayali Club] Muslim Offers $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Show That Qur'an Promotes Terrorism

Dear All,

Please kindly stop any more e-mail on this topic.

Please respect every religion and every human.

Please spread love, useful, fruitful, complete and correct information.

This WMC is a very good plateform neat and clean for the whole humanity.

I humbly request to all the beleivers of every religion please practice your religion at home not on this club.

Please share your good information, knowledge, jokes which can really bring smile / happiness on others faces.

Even we should avoid all types of political discussion on this platform because every individual is not a politician,

For the social websites they have secretaries / assitant to take care we are not being paid for the same from any politician or

We are not getting anything from this platform for discussing about any politician or his party than why we are wasting our time and energy.

If I spread / share good knowledge, correct information every one welcomes with open heart and

If I say a single word about other religion / community than every body starts firing on me, so wee should avoid all this..

Please kindly stop further e-mails on this topic.

Kindly note there are so many different colours I have used but everyone is reading and understanding the same meaning for the entire matter.

Dear Administrator please kindly filter or make some arrangement for such e-mails

With Best Wishes

SM-Arif

From: worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 2:40 AM
To: worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [World Malayali Club] Muslim Offers $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Show That Qur'an Promotes Terrorism

Dear Fellow friends,

To me all religion in the world never taught it followers any bad thing. It is the followers that manipulate the religion for the personnel.

What good does islam provide to the world by killing the innocent non muslims....NOTHING.

Just wake up and do your home work properly, then you will know peace can never be obtained without loving and respecting others.

In my country, we non muslims are called kafirs. We cant do much, still call our muslims friend as friends only with no special names.

Our temples was destroyed, in the name islam and the person who destroy temple is granted with noble pahala or good points accumulated.

On the other hand we respect every masudi and mosque as a place of worship.

Lets us continue to do good even to our muslim friends until one day they too will love us in return with peace

thanks

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:28 AM, "ramesh kuganti rkuganti2012@gmail.com [worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Ramana Shastry and All,

Good Day.

Shying away from an Objective Discussion and being afraid to Call a Spade a Spade, is not going to solve issues and Problems Plaguing the World; especially Violence and Terrorism.

Shri Ramana Shastry wrote in one of the last paragraphs of his Message "No one is capable of understanding all the issues of the world. Every one has his own belief that has to be respected by everyone." But a Few individuals or/ and all individuals of a Particular Religion believe that their Religion is The Panacea for All Evils in The world and Try to annhilate the Thoughts and the people, who think differently,How to Counter such people who will not allow the concept that "" Every one has his own belief that has to be respected by everyone""?.

Thanks and Best Regards.

K.Ramesh

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 11:58 AM, ramana shastry shastryjb@yahoo.com [worldmalayaliclub] <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear All,

I was going through this discussion with many inputs as well comments from many ends.

In my opinion NO RELIGION THAT INCLUDE HOLY QURAN DID NOT TEACH OR PREACH VIOLENCE OR TERRORISM to practice by man kind but a few bunch of people mislead the public is my belief by reading in between the lines of a verse of a Holy Book.

Besides, Arabic is a tough language and translating the same in to English with an exact meaning meant is a herculean task. It does not mean that it is not possible but some translations are not authentic. We have seen the same in Hindu scripture translations or some Government books being badly translated in to other languages including text books. The most important point we should take in to count also is Westerners deliberately did a few acts to paint a bad picture about other religions is also known to all this learned personnel on this forum.

However, this particular point should not have been brought to this level, in particular the discussion on religion. I fully agree with the comments sent by Sqr Leader Cherian, Mr. Sylvester or Mr. Iqbal. The references made by Shri. Narayana Swamy or not his opinions but put out from another translation. The learned scholar Shre Narayana Swami merely quoting a book that misrepresented the point is also my feeling.

No one is capable of understanding all the issues of the world. Every one has his own belief that has to be respected by everyone. Like Bharat Mata ki Jai issue this is also going no where but due to prolonged discussion am sure this will lead to an unwarranted situation.

Therefore, I request everyone to avoid discussing this further and none of you shall get the the bounty.

Am sure I learned a lot out of this topic and thank one and all participated.

Best Regards

B.J. Shastry Supply Support Service Systems Co Ltd (4S CTPL DIVISION) P.O. Box 1557 Al Khobar. KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA TEL 00966 3 865 3872 FAX 00966 3 898 6749 MOB 00966 506052663

From: "khasim iqebal altaf_tausif@yahoo.com [worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com>
To: worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 2, 2016 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [World Malayali Club] Muslim Offers $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Show That Qur'an Promotes Terrorism

Namasthe to all. I think this is the first time I am writing in this forum, even though I am an ardent follower of the club for the last five years.. I find the members of the club very articulate, knowledgeable and above all very humane. I have great respect for all of them.

Sri Narayanan Subramanian sounds knowledgeable and well informed. I also find him very delighted in speaking ill of other religions. There is bloodshed in every religion. He has conveniently left out this point. No one can deny the fact that terrorism is on the rise, of late, which is condemnable and not acceptable in a civil society. Bur how can link terrorism to the Holy Quran. I doubt whether a Mr. Alnatour exists or somebody planted this so that the issue takes this shape. May be I am not as informed as Sri.Subramanyan. What hurt us most is the eagerness of Subramanyan in belittling a sister community and their holy Scripture. With regards to all.

S.K.Q.IQEBAL

On Saturday, April 2, 2016 4:59 AM, "Narayanaswamy Subramanian s_narayanaswamy@yahoo.com [worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear Mohaned A K Elkhalifa

Deeply delighted at your response that I should do more research from Koran books. Following is my reply.

Having been conscientiously doing exactly that, and have successfully unearthed many more golden nuggets. Here are some of these imperishable nuggets of Divine wisdom/command:-

Koran 7.72 - We annihilated them that disbelieved.

Koran 7.93 96 - Whenever we sent a prophet to a city we afflicted them with calamities and misfortunes so that they might abase themselves. And in their heedlessness We suddenly smote them (i.e. slaughtered all of them when when their attention was distracted). They disbeli1eved, and we punished them.

Koran 9.11 - The faithful will fight for the cause of God, slay and be slain. Such is the true promise which He has made to them in the Torah of the Jews, the four Gospels of the Christians, and the Koran of the Muslims.

Koran 33.26 - He (God) brought down from their strongholds those who had supported the unbelievers from among the people of the Book (Jews) and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive. (The Bani Quraysh massacre/enslavement of some 900 Jews during the Battle of the Trench A.D 627. This was the last Jewish settlement to be cleared.)

Koran 34.61 - If your neighbours the hypocrites do not desist, their days will be numbered. Cursed wherever they are found, they will be seized and put to death by you with a fierce slaughter.

Koran 42.41 - God does not love wrongdoers. Those (believers) who revenge themselves when wronged, incur no guilt.

Koran 75.40 - Was not man a drop of ejaculated semen? He became a clot of blood, God formed and moulded him, gave him male and female parts.

Koran 90.20 - We created man to try him with afflictions.

92.13 - The Messenger of Allah said: This is the she-camel of Allah (producing his own she-camel mount), so let her drink. But the tribe of Thamud denied him, and slaughtered the beast. And for that crime the Lord let loose the scourge and razed their city to the ground (killing all inhabitants).

So, Dear Mohaned A K Elkhalifa, the quotations given earlier were only further strengthened, reinforced, and supplemented on further intense research.

Hope you are now satisfied that both Arhata Osho and I fully qualify to receive the US$10,000 prize so generously offered by Omar Natour.

Best wishes.

S Narayanaswamy

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On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:11 PM, 'Sylvester D'cruz' sylvester.49@gmail.com [worldmalayaliclub]<worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear ALL,

Don't waste your time looking in the koran, look at the mind of the

sick person it is there..

Thank you,

Sylvester

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 7:45 AM, Pullamkottu Poulose Cherian cherianpullamkottu@gmail.com[worldmalayaliclub] <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear All,

Although these verses advocating terrorism EXISTED in the Quran all along, may be many people probably would not have either not read all these or even if they have read it, would not have considered these as a source of perpetuating terrorism. I think by opening this discussion, we have opened a Pandoras Box; many more will be aware of these verses . Now that all these verses are highlighted, many readers may take it as an authority to perpetuate more terrorism by quoting these verses, or misleading the gullible followers of Mohamed. . May be this was a hidden agenda of Mr. Omar Alnatour who made the public offer of a reward.

Sqn Ldr P P Cherian ( Retd)

919447116854
http://www.cheriretirementhomes.com/

Regards

Sqn Ldr P P Cherian ( Retd)

919447116854
http://www.cheriretirementhomes.com/

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Narayanaswamy Subramanian s_narayanaswamy@yahoo.com[worldmalayaliclub] <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

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Dear Omar Alnatour

Thank you so very much for publicly offering "anyone $10,000 if they can find me a verse in the Quran that says it's ok to kill innocent people or to commit acts of terror." I eagerly accept.

Sri Arhata Osho or arhataworldfreespeech, UK has, in his remarkably eloquent response to your offer, answered you point by point, and found not one, but several verses in the Quran that satisfied your criterion.

He cites specifically Quran 9.5, Quran 9.29, Quran 9.30, Quran 3.151, Quran 9.14, and Quran 8.60.

In addition to all that, let me now give you some more authentic and easily verifiable citations that also satisfy fully your criterion:-

Quran 47.4 5 - When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield (even when you provoked the battle yourself) strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Had God willed, He Himself could have beheaded them, but he has ordained it thus that he might test you (to do the beheading).

Quran 2.191 - Slay them (i.e. idolators) wherever you find hem. Idolatry is worse than carnage.

Quran 9.73 - Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites (and kill them off even if they live peacefully by themselves and do you no harm).

Then 9.123. - Believers, make war with the infidels who dwell around you (and kill all of them off).

My dear Omar, on combing through not only your Quran but your other Holy Books, I could find more instances where your God Allah not only encouraged but ORDERED terrorism and mass murder.

Remember, for example, the incident of the Bani Quraysh where your Prophet and his armed men personally raided that peaceful Jewish settlement, got all the men and post-puberty boys to dig a long earthen grave-trench and sit in a line at the edge with their wrists and ankles tied.

Your Prophet and his men then walked along and in front of their terrified families, beheaded every single one of them with shouts and curses. After that they made their womenfolk including little girls and suckling babies slaves -- your Prophet taking one-fifth of the captives as his own booty, as well as one-fifth of all goods and possessions seized such as camels, horses, cattle, furniture, agricultural implements, clothes, money, pots and pans, foodgrains, seeds and cattle fodder.

The Jews' crime? They were not desert Bedouins, and declined to fight alongside the Muslims to conquer, pillage and enslave others.

My dear Omar, when can you pay me as solemnly promised and as an Allah-fearing Muslim, not necessarily US40,000, being US$10,000 per above-given citation, but a minimum of US$10,000 for my efforts? Where, when and from whom can I come to collect it? Can you make it cold cash instead of a bounceable cheque? Thanks.

Due to health problems, I have long given up driving cars. But with US$10,000 I certainly shall go to the Near West, to Saudi Arabia, and hunt for the tomb of

Safiyah bint Huyyay, the Prophet's Jewish concubine, and for the tomb of Aishah whom he married when he was an aged 53-year-old grandfather and she was a six-year-old infant playing with toys.

After finding them, I shall sprinkle on the tombs a few drops each of Ganga water which I have collected from Pancha-ganga in Kaashi, from the confluence of Ganga, the Yamuna and the Sarasvathi in Praayaga at Triveni, and from the confluence of the Ganga and the Brahmaputra in Bengal. Hopefully, these will alleviate their eternal thirst a la Bhageeratha's ancestors. Zam Zam water will not do that.

S Narayanaswamy

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 7:34 AM, "Arhata Osho arhataworldfreespeech@yahoo.co.uk[worldmalayaliclub]" <worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Muslim Offers $10,000 To Anyone Who Can Show That Qur'an Promotes Terrorism
Frontpagemag.com ^ | March 28, 2016 | Robert Spencer

Dear Omar Alnatour:

Thank you so very much for offering "anyone $10,000 if they can find me a verse in the Quran that says it's ok to kill innocent people or to commit acts of terror." My 1999 Toyota is on its last legs, and your generous gift will enable me to replace it with a modest but fully operational used midsize sedan. Or maybe (since it has been years since I've had a break), if I can keep the jalopy going for awhile, I will use your ten grand take a vacation to Paris and Brussels -- before it's too late, you know?

Anyway, here is my entry, which I am confident will win the $10,000 prize. I'll make sure of that by giving you even more than you asked for: you wanted just a single Qur'anic verse that "says it's ok to kill innocent people or to commit acts of terror," I'll give you more than one of each, just so there is no doubt:

The Qur'an says it's ok to kill innocent people

"Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate." (Qur'an 9:5)

The verse says to kill the idolaters – mushrikun – those who worship others besides Allah. Now I don't know, Mr. Alnatour, if you might think "idolaters" are by virtue of being "idolaters" are not innocent and therefore worth killing, but I'm with Thomas Jefferson: "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." I don't think my neighbor to have forfeited his innocence if he prays to gods I don't recognize, and I hope you don't, either.

Now I expect that you will say that this Qur'an verse refers not to all idolaters, but only to one very specific group of idolaters, the polytheist Quraysh tribe of Mecca that was making war against Muhammad, and that this verse has no force now that they have been conquered and Islamized, and doesn't apply to any other idolaters. It would have been nice for Allah to make that clear in the pages of his perfect book, but who am I to question the will of a deity?

What's more, classic Muslim commentators on this Qur'an verse give no hint that it has long expired. On the contrary, Ibn Juzayy notes that it cancels out peaceful verses; he says that it abrogates "every peace treaty in the Qur'an," and specifically abrogates the Qur'an's directive to "set free or ransom" captive unbelievers (47:4). As-Suyuti agrees: "This is an Ayat of the Sword which abrogates pardon, truce and overlooking" — that is, perhaps the overlooking of the pagans' offenses. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that the Muslims must "slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except death or Islam." He is offering this as instruction for Muslims in his day; he seems to have no idea that this verse doesn't apply to them.

Neither does Ibn Kathir. He writes that Muslims should "not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam." He also doesn't seem to subscribe to the view that this verse applies only to the pagans of Arabia in Muhammad's time, and has no further application. He asserts, on the contrary, that "slay the unbelievers wherever you find them" means just that: the unbelievers must be killed "on the earth in general, except for the Sacred Area" — that is, the sacred mosque in Mecca, in accord with Qur'an 2:191.

So there you are, Mr. Alnatour: the Qur'an calling for the murder of those who are innocent, except for the crime of being "idolaters" – a "crime" that requires earthly punishment only in the Qur'an.

And there's more:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Qur'an 9:29)

The "People of the Book" are Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians. The verse doesn't provide any reason why they should be fought and made to submit to the Muslims except that they are People of the Book and don't acknowledge Islam. Here again, you might consider them not innocent on that basis, but I hope you don't, as I'm sure you would agree that people may differ on key questions in good faith.

Ibn Juzayy, however, does believe that the People of the Book should be fought simply because they are not Muslims. He says that this verse is "a command to fight the People of the Book" and explains that they must be fought because of their "denying their belief in Allah because of the words of the Jews, 'Ezra is the son of Allah" and the words of the Christians, 'The Messiah is the son of Allah'" (cf. Qur'an 9:30). He adds that Muslims must also fight them "because they consider as lawful carrion, blood, pork, etc." and because "they do not enter Islam."

So the Qur'an says that the People of the Book must be fought because they believe differently from the Muslims. But that is not a crime. These people are innocent.

The Qur'an says it's ok to commit acts of terror

"We will cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, for that they have associated with Allah that for which He sent down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers." (Qur'an 3:151)

Now, Mr. Alnatour (may I call you Omar?), I know what you'll say here: this is Allah saying he will terrorize the unbelievers, not commanding the Muslims to do so. Fair enough, although I can't help but recall that the Qur'an also says: "Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands" (9:14). So if Allah is punishing the unbelievers by the hands of the believers, might part of that punishment involve casting terror into the hearts of the unbelievers? And that's what terrorism is all about, right?

And yes, there is still more. "Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged." (Qur'an 8:60)

Strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy. Now you no doubt have some explanation for this, Mr. Alnatour, but I wonder how you would explain to a young member of the Islamic State (ISIS) or al-Qaeda that Allah's command to strike terror into the enemy of Allah doesn't mean that they should behead, or blow up, or otherwise terrorize unbelievers.

So there you have it. Not just one verse, but four, and I have plenty more. You don't have to pay me $40,000 even though I fulfilled your requirements four times over; I'll take the $10,000, and thank you very much for your generosity. I must say that I very much enjoyed your article in which you made this offer, "Why Muslims Should Never Have To Apologize for Terrorism," if it is proper to say that one enjoyed such a lamentable tale as your own. It is lamentable to read about how your wife screams at you and your children hate you for matters beyond your control, and that then on top of that, Infidels have the temerity to want you to do something about Islamic terrorism beyond issuing pro forma condemnations.

My mind goes back, however, to those who were murdered by Islamic terrorists recently in Brussels, Paris, San Bernardino, and so many other places. I'm sure you would agree that the suffering of their families far exceeds that of Muslims who must suffer Infidels asking them (quite patiently, for over fourteen years now since 9/11) to clean their own house. I do hope that you will think a bit about them, and about your Qur'an. Instead of obfuscating its contents, as you're writing out my check, you could do us all a favor by starting to ponder some strategies about how to limit the capacity of your holy book to incite murder and bloodshed. In light of my confidence that you will do that, I very much look forward to your next article.

With cordial best wishes from your fellow human being,